MOD. 1858 NEW BELT CAL .36 (Remington)

[Wally]

I have just obtained a Uberti replica of the above Remington revolver. I am a rank newcomer to BP so please excuse my ignorance.

I can find no reference to the above revolver on this websit or any other, although it looks exactly like the 1858 New Army in 44 cal. Can anyone tell me more about this gun?

I am eagerly looking forward to shooting it, but need to know:-

1. Correct charge weight. Does 20 gr. sound right for starters?

2. Correct size ball. I got an RCBS 375-R mould with the gun. Is .375" correct for .36 Cal? Why do I not find this mould in a recent RCBS catalog?

3. Is it OK to seat the ball directly on top of the charge, or should I use a wad?

4. What is the best way to apply lube once the ball is seated?

Any sound advice appreciated!

Wally Edmunds.

[dougs_45]

Wally that pistol is the 1858 Remington Navy model, the Army was .44 and Navy was smaller calibers (.36, .31, so on) I had two of them one was an Uberti reproduction and the other was a original mid-way through convertion. The Uberti reprod. that I had shot perfect. the .375 ball is the correct size and the 20grs. should give you good results. Also don't know if you've noticed or not but that .36 seemed to be a natural pointer because it fits in the hand so well. You can do the seating of the bullet either way, with a wad behind it or seat the ball onto the charge, and as for the lube place it into each chamber after seating the balls mostly to prevent flash over(is when the firing of one chamber touches off the other in a chain reaction touching off the other chambers) Good Luck and Have Fun [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-02-2005, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: dougs_45 ]

[Wally]

Thanks for the info. I'll post again once I have done some shooting.

[Gatofeo]

See my post, "How to properly use that cap and ball revolver," posted 9-12-2004. You'll find a lot of useful information in that.

I also have a Remington Navy in .36 caliber, made by Pietta. It's a good quality firearm and accurate.
I use a greased felt wad between the ball and powder, and no lubricant over the ball. The greased felt wad makes extra lubricant unnecessary.
I have never believed that flash-over occurs from the front of the cylinder. Instead, I believe it comes at the rear, when caps are cast off from recoil and the flame of a second shot gets into the chamber through the nearby nipple.
I guess I'm a rare individual, having experienced three separate multiple discharges with the same revolver years ago.
It was in the early 1970s and I used .451 inch lead balls, Crisco over the ball, and didn't pinch my caps into an elliptical shape so they'd cling to the nipple better. Today, I know better.
I use a larger ball, greased felt wad between ball and powder and pinch the caps a bit so they stay on the nipples.
As for the proper load for your Remington .36.
I can get up to 30 grains of Goex FFFG in the chamber of my Pietta, and still have enough room to seat the .380 inch ball. No greased felt wad is used and lubricant is smeared over the ball.
If I use a greased felt wad, I can use up to 27 grains of FFFG with the .380 inch ball. The wad occupies the equivalent space of about 3 grains of FFFG.
Either of these are powerful loads, pushing the ball at slightly over 1,000 feet per second from the Remington's 6-1/2 inch barrel.
For plinking and target shooting, 20 to 24 grains is good.
A word of caution: The Remington's rammer does not reach down into the chamber as far as the Colt. Thus, if you use a small amount of powder you may not be able to fully seat the ball down on the powder.
To cure this, either use one or two felt wads between the ball and powder with light loads, or fill the empty space with corn meal.
Corn meal will compress and is forgiving if you add a tad too much. Cream of Wheat, which is often suggested, is not compressible and not so forgiving.
The ball MUST be down firm on the powder, or the space between the ball and powder must be firmly filled.
If there is any space between ball and powder, the ball acts like an obstruction and pressures can jump drastically, to the point of ruining your revolver or even injure you or a bystander.
I like my Pietta-made Remington .36 revolver. The real Remington Navies were slightly smaller than the Army model, but today's replicas most often use the same frame as the .44 caliber. My Pietta .36 Remington is merely the .44 model chambered and barreled for .36 caliber.
I believe that the Ubertis are also based on the .44 frame and not smaller.
I understand that in the 1970s, Lyman sold the Remington in .36 and .44 caliber and that the .36 version was slightly smaller than the .44 caliber, just like the originals.
Have fun with that Remington .36 revolver. They're not often seen in that caliber on the range but I don't know why because the use less powder and lead than the .44s yet are as accurate.

[Wally]

Thanks Gatofeo,

Your comment on flash over being unlikely from the front makes good sense.

Something else I notice on my gun is that on half **** the cylinder (chamber) does not line up well with the ram. When the cylinder is rotated against the pawl by hand with the cylinder stop disengaged (half ****) one would expect the ram to be perfectly aligned with the chamber. Chatting in the gunshop today two people and the friend I bought the gun from remarked that all revolvers they had encoutered were like this. Surely this makes loading tricky and could be easily rectified. Or am I missing something?

I can't wait to shoot this gun but in my part of the world there are issues regarding permits for purchase/transportation /storage of BP which I need to deal with first.

Later.

[Gatofeo]

A few years ago, I found the factory recipe for lubricating bullets with heeled bullets, such as the .32, .38 and .41 Colt. I used it with my .32 Long Colt in an 1892 Marlin rifle, with great success.
Then I began using it for all black powder applications. It's a marvelous recipe: easily made, inexpensive, keeps black powder fouling soft and is versatile. I use it to lubricate black powder bullets (cartridges or muzzleloaders), felt wads in cap and ball revolvers, and patches for my .50 muzzleloading rifle.
Felt wads used between the ball and powder in cap and ball revolvers benefit greatly from this lubricant.
The old-time recipe is:
1 part paraffin - I use canning paraffin, which is melted and then poured into the tops of jars to preserve the jelly.
1 part mutton tallow - Worth the effort to find it. Substituting lard, beef tallow or any other rendered fat is not recommended. It will create an inferior product.
1/2 part beeswax
All measurements are by weight, not volume. I use a kitchen scale to measure 200/200/100 grams of ingredients.
Place the weighed ingredients into a quart, widemouth Mason jar. Place the jar into three or four inches of boiling water in a pot, for a double-boiler effect.
When all ingredients melt, remove from the heat and allow to solidfy at room temperature. Placing the melted lubricant in the refrigerator, to hasten hardening, may cause the ingredients to separate.
Now, here's how to lubricate those felt wads.
Use a clean tuna or pet food can. Place 2 or so Tablespoons of lubricant in the can. Place the can on the burner at very, very low heat. Just enough to melt it but not cook it.
Add 100 wads or so and stir them around with a Popsicle stick or clean stick. Ensure they are all well-soaked with the lubricant.
Remove from the heat. Allow to cool. Now, snap a plastic can cover over the top. These are sold in the pet food aisle of your local store.
The cover will keep dust and crud out, and keep the natural moistures of the ingredients in.
No need to squeeze excess lubricant from the wads in the can, just use them as-is.
How does this recipe differ from other black powder lubricants?
Well, it includes paraffin. I believe that paraffin stiffens the felt wad somewhat, making it a more effective fouling scraper.
That's my theory. Others have tried this lubricant, as it's specified above, and found it equally good for all black powder applications.

If you use a greased wad between ball and powder there is no need to apply lubricant over the ball. However, if you wish to do so, keep a bit of the lubricant in a small container and spoon it out with a Popsicle stick or small, flat stick.
With this, you can smear lubricant over the ball and not get as much on your fingers.

Your .375 ball is okay but I prefer a ball a bit larger. I use a .380 inch ball with my .36 calibers and seem to get better accuracy.
Got a theory about that too --- The larger ball, when rammed into the chamber, creates a wider driving band. I believe that this aids accuracy, because the rifling has more of an area to grip.

It's okay to seat the ball directly on top of the powder. No problem there. Just ensure that the ball is down firm on the powder and there is no air space between them.

I can't imagine what laws you have to abide by to keep your cap and ball running. Let us know what components (ball, caps, powder, lubricants, etc.) are readily available. I'm always interested to learn how far American shooting products are distributed.
Good luck with that pistol.