Hand loading for 1885

[rons]

I have an 1885 special sporting model with a 32" barrel on order. Has anyone handloaded 45-70 for these rifles? Does anyone know what pressure ranges they are capable of handling?

[dixie brick]

do you want to shoot black powder or smokeless? jacket bullets or lead?

[rons]

At this point I won't be participating in BPCR competitions. As such I'm looking to load only smokeless with jacketed and lead bullets. I'm looking for what kind of pressure these actions and barrels can handle. For example the Ruger #1 can handle up to around 50,000 cup. That makes for some pretty hot handloads. At that kind of presure you can push the 45-70 to almost the level of a 458 win mag. I don't want to load anything that hot, I just want to know what the upper limit is.

[oldwildlifer]

I wish I knew where you were "out west" so I could stay on the "other" side of the hill from where you are planning to blow your head off! You should have got a Ruger or a 458 if you want those pressures..... Look in the Hornady Third Edition. I'd stick with 25,000 and just work a little above, but that's up to you.

[rons]

>I wish I knew where you were "out west" so I
>could stay on the "other" side of the hill from
>where you are planning to blow your head off!

I'm out in eastern Washington State. Don't worry, I don't plan on loading any real hot loads. They're no fun to shoot. I'f I want to punnish myself, I've got a #1 in 300 win-mag that I can use.

>Look in the Hornady Third Edition.

I'm going off "The Complete Guide to Reloading 45-70". It's got the data from pretty much all the reloading manuals including Hornady. They list essentially three presure ranges. The lowest is for genuine vintage rifles like the trapdoor. Upper limit of about 15,000 cup. The middle pressure range is for new lever actions like the Marlin. Upper range is something like 35,000 cup. The top pressure range is Ruger #1's. The upper range is 50,000 cup. I'd like to know where the Uberti falls. My guess is the middle range but I can't find any data or folks with personal expirence.

It may be a moot point. I've had the Special Sporting on order for over a month now and have yet to receive it. Seems that most retail outlets have to collect orders for rifles and shotguns distributed by Stoeger since Stoeger will not sell individual guns to the retail outlets. You have to be a dealer and carry their full line. No dealers in this area. At least that is what I've been told by the retailer I've order through and they have been reliable in the past. I'll give it a couple of more weeks to see if I can get one and if I can't all start looking at other manufacturers.

[Rye Winchester]

I've had my Special Sporter with a 32" barrel for about 6 months now and I'm only shooting black powder hand loads in it. I shot 40 rounds of jacketed 300 grain hollow points through her at first, and right out of the box she was grouping 3" at 200 yards from the bench (and I'm a new shooter to this style rifle). My current loads run 68 gr of FFg Goex behind a 535 gr Postell 20:1 lead bullet greased with SPG lube and I'm running about the same groupings. This load will also drop the rams at 500 yards... just how much stopping power do you need? Run your barrel in, and then come to the dark side, you'll never go back. It's a nice medium weight rifle and with the longer barrel, it recoils less than my old .308 with 180 gr bullets.

I don't understand those that spend this much money on "authentic" reproductions and then shoot modern ammo in them. Even for hunting, these guns are proven killers, if you don't mind the weight.

Good shooting, and you'll absolutely love the rifle. Make sure you let us all know how she shoots. Oh, and it took me over 4 months to get mine and it was factory direct to a gun shop in Tulsa, OK from Uberti. Something about barrel steel problems last spring slowed things down I understand.

RW

[Rollershooter]

Your 1885 will fall in the middle range. If you shoot jacketed bullets, be certain to use Kroil , Sewwts or some other form of solvent to remove the copper fouling before shooting ANY cast bullet. Copper deposits and cast bullets lead to leading. If you go the Black Powder route, you will find the rifle more consistant shooting, easier to clean and a real COOL FACTOR at the range. Especially if you go the paper patch route.
Rollershooter

[Clark]

I overloaded my NEF Handi Rifle 45/70 to verify my calculations that the action is strong.

I got a handi rifle and wondered how much it could take, so being an engineer, I went about a stress analysis. I determined that it was stronger than the brass to my satisfaction and submitted to rec.guns. There an ME proffessor gave me some help. I also got some help from the chief engineer of the M107, M110, and M158 gun desgins. I then shot some trapdoor starting loads, and got kicked so hard I didn't shoot again for a year.

Then I adressed this question on the Marlin/Nef website forum, and someone said that my analysis meant nothing because I was not qualified. So I did a test work up to validate my calculation.

The chalanger was still not convinced with my test data, and the lesson is more something to do with human nature than guns.

Here is my test data:
45/70 work up with; 405 gr cast with lube bands, CCI 200 primers, Win
brass, old Unique [dirty] powder, chamber well lubricated between
firings with CLP for max bolt thrust.

Quickload calculation of pressure and velocity with 405 gr, Unique

shot 0) 15 gr, 24,700 psi, 1271 fps, no shot fired, listed for Quickload reference point only
shot 1) 18 gr, 33,217psi, 1403 fps, primer looks fine.
shot 2) 20 gr, 39,435 psi, 1485 fps, primer is fine
shot 3) 22 gr, 46,133 psi, 1563 fps, primer looks flat.
shot 4) 24 gr, 53,334 psi, 1637 fps, primer is flat.
shot 5) 26 gr, 61,067 psi, 1709 fps, primer is top hat and flowing,
action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 6) 28 gr, 69,366 psi, 1778 fps, primer is top hat and flowing, case
head expansion .001", action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 7) 30 gr, 78275 psi, 1846 fsp, case head expansion .0015" action
popped open and case ejected on firing, some leading in the muzzle.
shot 8) 32 gr, 87,841 psi, 1911 fps, case head expansion .0025", case head separating where case head is flowing into the extractor, action popped open, some leading in the muzzle, and case ejected on firing, primer is spreading out .010"

There was no change in headspace, but I had to stop the work up because of case head separation where the case head flowed into the extractor.

Reference loads:

1) "Loads for the 45/70" from the H.P.White laboratory via "American
Rifleman" 1950~1968 via "NRA Handloader's Guide" 1969 says:
405 gr Rem S.P., 17.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 25,240 pounds pressure, for 1886 Win

2) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
400 gr cast, 16.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 27,000 cup, for 1886 Win

3) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
385 cast gr cast, 17.5 gr Unique, 1411 fps, 38,500 cup, for Ruger #1

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachmen...postid=1168678


What does it all mean?
The gun can take it, but the gun kicks to hard with Trapdoor starting loads.
I did the test firing with my left palm on the butt, and had 2' of recoil travel to absorb the energy.