What is the best? SBE II or Vinci?

[jonesbb630]

I currently own a SBE II and happy with it. My friend wants to buy a new Benelli, but is confused on which one is the best between the SBE II or VINCI. We haven't had a chance to try the VINCI as we live in Canada and won't be available to us until Dec. 2009.

SBE II = 2.75", 3", and 3.5"
VINCI = 2.75", 3", lighter and less recoil.

Does anyone have both or has anyone been able to test both and what is your preference?

SBE II or VINCI?

Should he wait for the VINCI or buy the SBE II now?

This would be mainly for Waterfowlling.

Opinions please would be grateful.
Thanks

[hognutz]

I have both, and really have no problem with either of them. If I was to buy a gun mainly for waterfowl, I would have to go with the SBE ll, because of the 3.5'' factor. Recoil is something to consider on the Vinci, but the Comfort Tech on the SBE ll helps as well. It would be SBE ll all the way for me.

[mudhen]

Buy both :)

While I will almost certainly add a Vinci to the crowded safe this year, I will never be without a few SBE/SBE II's in the safe.

Read up here a bit and you will find much info about both guns.

I don't need the Vinci, I want the Vinci.....

[hognutz]

Buy both :)

While I will almost certainly add a Vinci to the crowded safe this year, I will never be without a few SBE/SBE II's in the safe.

Read up here a bit and you will find much info about both guns.

I don't need the Vinci, I want the Vinci.....

Amen to that!! It is just one of those guns that you can't live without..

[jonesbb630]

On a more serious note, by adding the want to hunt Canada Geese, Pheasant and Wild Turkey. Wouldn't the SBE II be able to do it all and moreso than the Vinci?

[hognutz]

On a more serious note, by adding the want to hunt Canada Geese, Pheasant and Wild Turkey. Wouldn't the SBE II be able to do it all and moreso than the Vinci?

The SBE is my go to turkey gun. I doubt that you would need the 3.5'' for pheasant, but for geese and turkey the extra pellet count works for me. It would work well for pheasant as well, with whatever load you choose. The SBE line of guns will not let you down. Like Mudhen said. Buy the SBE and get the Vinci next. All bases covered. Well, most of them...

[JackTheRipper]

I'm torn between the SBE II and the Vinci also...

I have no idea why Benelli would release the Vinci only in a 3"... they clearly wanna make some extra cash...

here are my questions though:

1) where is the vinci/sbe2 made?

2) if the vinci came in the 3.5", which would you prefer to have then? the 3.5" vinci or the sbe2 3.5"?

thanks!

Jack

[texas skeeter]

Um, m1014:d

[Trapshooter1]

On a more serious note, by adding the want to hunt Canada Geese, Pheasant and Wild Turkey. Wouldn't the SBE II be able to do it all and moreso than the Vinci?
Defiantly the SBE2, for me I have to have my 3.5"s for turkeys. I have an M2 which is a 3" chamber, but I have an 870 with appropriate camo and a 3.5" chamber for turkeys. The vinci's new action has a slight advantage over the SBE. I will call the vinci's action the IL for "in line" and the SBE's action ID for "inertia driven". The typical ID action uses the inertia provided by the recoil to operate the action. This type of action, is more reliable between cleanings, considerably lighter, and much simpler than the more common gas system. The inertia provided by recoil throws the bolt back, and a spring in the but stock (the part with the comfortech) returns the bolt. All the same goes for the IL action, except that the spring is located right behind the bolt. This makes for a slightly lighter, and with less weight to slow it down, slightly faster cycling. The IL action also allows for easier cleaning, because on the ID action, you need to take apart the recoil tube in the butt stock containing the spring, at the most once a year for reliable cycling. The Vinci has a slight weight advantage, but only slight. The Vinci's 3 piece design is no advantage as far as I am concerned. I used to carry my supernova around in a full length hard case, which made it tricky to take to shoots with 3 people in a sedan. The SBE2 comes with a 2 piece case, where you have to unscrew the for end cap, and pull the barrel off, and lay it in the case, very easy. The 2 piece case included with the SBE2, is as small as you would need it, I can't imagine why you would need it smaller. The Vinci is a surprisingly light kicker for such a light gun. Not a big difference in recoil compared to a SBE2. You may tell yourself you don't need 3.5"s, but eventually you will wish you could try them, assuming you are an active hunter. The Vinci is markedly new and hard to find parts and accessories for. If eventually it became popular, had time to prove its self, was available in 3.5", as cheap as the SBE2, and I was looking for a 3.5" shotgun in that price range, I would go for the Vinci. For now, my advice to you is get the SBE2, and you can always sell it for a Vinci if it were to gain popularity, and come out with a 3.5" chamber. I doubt you will be disappointing whichever gun you get.

[JackTheRipper]

Defiantly the SBE2, for me I have to have my 3.5"s for turkeys. I have an M2 which is a 3" chamber, but I have an 870 with appropriate camo and a 3.5" chamber for turkeys. The vinci's new action has a slight advantage over the SBE. I will call the vinci's action the IL for "in line" and the SBE's action ID for "inertia driven". The typical ID action uses the inertia provided by the recoil to operate the action. This type of action, is more reliable between cleanings, considerably lighter, and much simpler than the more common gas system. The inertia provided by recoil throws the bolt back, and a spring in the but stock (the part with the comfortech) returns the bolt. All the same goes for the IL action, except that the spring is located right behind the bolt. This makes for a slightly lighter, and with less weight to slow it down, slightly faster cycling. The IL action also allows for easier cleaning, because on the ID action, you need to take apart the recoil tube in the butt stock containing the spring, at the most once a year for reliable cycling. The Vinci has a slight weight advantage, but only slight. The Vinci's 3 piece design is no advantage as far as I am concerned. I used to carry my supernova around in a full length hard case, which made it tricky to take to shoots with 3 people in a sedan. The SBE2 comes with a 2 piece case, where you have to unscrew the for end cap, and pull the barrel off, and lay it in the case, very easy. The 2 piece case included with the SBE2, is as small as you would need it, I can't imagine why you would need it smaller. The Vinci is a surprisingly light kicker for such a light gun. Not a big difference in recoil compared to a SBE2. You may tell yourself you don't need 3.5"s, but eventually you will wish you could try them, assuming you are an active hunter. The Vinci is markedly new and hard to find parts and accessories for. If eventually it became popular, had time to prove its self, was available in 3.5", as cheap as the SBE2, and I was looking for a 3.5" shotgun in that price range, I would go for the Vinci. For now, my advice to you is get the SBE2, and you can always sell it for a Vinci if it were to gain popularity, and come out with a 3.5" chamber. I doubt you will be disappointing whichever gun you get.

what if the vinci was out now with a 3.5" ... which would you pick?

[Trapshooter1]

what if the vinci was out now with a 3.5" ... which would you pick?
That would be a hard decision, but right now the Vinci is to new, the SBE's recoil could be just as light with a limbsaver recoil pad, The Vinci isn't proven. I would pick the SBE, because it is a proven durable design, and many aftermarket parts and accessories are available for it, and none are available for the Vinci. The Vinci isn't available in 3.5" and may never be, so.....

[ishootkittens]

3 or 3.5.. imo.. bigger is better. go with the sbeII you cant go wrong.

[JackTheRipper]

I'm new to duck hunting and such...

so forgive the really noobish question...

I think I really like the walnut satin finish better than the camo or black composite...

wood is still fine for duck hunting right? are there any cons to wood (other than it scratches?)...

benelli's SBE2 is made in Italy right?

thanks!

Jack

[Trapshooter1]

I'm new to duck hunting and such...

so forgive the really noobish question...

I think I really like the walnut satin finish better than the camo or black composite...

wood is still fine for duck hunting right? are there any cons to wood (other than it scratches?)...

benelli's SBE2 is made in Italy right?

thanks!

Jack
Yes the SBE2 as well as the Vinci is made in Italy, Wood is fine, but the blue finish of the barrel is more rust prone than camo. I don't have a whole lot of experience with wood stocks, but as long as they aren't abused they should last longer than you. I have seen a couple low grade wood stocks broke, but they were abused badly. Wood stocks can also crack much easier than synthetic.

[JackTheRipper]

but Benelli to be sure uses good quality wood?

it seems like there isn't a big difference between the Vinci and SBE II, except for the 3.5" thing...

So I gotta hold both of them and see which one feels more natural... I think, from what I've read so far that the SBE II would be the better buy because it's been around longer and is tried and trusted...

how would the SBE II compare to the browning maxus?

thanks for all your help btw!

I just love the look of wood, and it's cheaper too!

what's the price of a SBE II walnut in a hunting store?

[Trapshooter1]

but Benelli to be sure uses good quality wood?

it seems like there isn't a big difference between the Vinci and SBE II, except for the 3.5" thing...

So I gotta hold both of them and see which one feels more natural... I think, from what I've read so far that the SBE II would be the better buy because it's been around longer and is tried and trusted...

how would the SBE II compare to the browning maxus?

thanks for all your help btw!

I just love the look of wood, and it's cheaper too!

what's the price of a SBE II walnut in a hunting store?
Benelli for sure uses quality wood. I haven't been looking at SBE2s with a wood stock, but you can look up the SBE with a wood stock on gunbroker.com (http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/) and you will get a good idea what a fair price is. I hear lots of good things about the Maxus, but unfortunately, I have no experience with that gun.

[JackTheRipper]

thanks for the website,

i just noticed the wood sbe2 doesn't have the little rubber recoil stopper things on the stock... you think the wood would kick harder ?

thanks

[Trapshooter1]

thanks for the website,

i just noticed the wood sbe2 doesn't have the little rubber recoil stopper things on the stock... you think the wood would kick harder ?

thanks
I noticed no difference between my M2 with comfortech, and an M2 American which doesn't have the comfort tech. There is probably a slight difference, but not easily noticeable. I do think it makes a difference with heavier loads but I don't know for sure because I didn't shoot heavy loads through the american, but the heavy loads kick lighter than I think they should.

[Novaking]

thanks for the website,

i just noticed the wood sbe2 doesn't have the little rubber recoil stopper things on the stock... you think the wood would kick harder ?

thanks

I have a Nova and a Supernova and I can tell much differance between and comforttech and the standard stock.

[Trapshooter1]

I have a Nova and a Supernova and I can tell much differance between and comforttech and the standard stock.
Did you have a spelling error? You can tell much difference?

[(TANK)]

I think the wood maybe kick a little less due to the weight.I have shot wood guns for a long time and have had know issues if they get wet take apart ,let them dry and oil before putting them up simple.I went with the Black 28" SBEII looks super sexy when oiled you won't be sorry with either purchuse wood or black.As for the Vinci it's new 3" not alot of time in the field no add on's. The m2 is a great little gun and is the same as the Vinci and has the wood option and is proven.

[cksh8me]

If I were buying today I'd pick the SBE's or M2's if I didn't need the 3.5 shells. The Vinci doesn't have a track record with it's new operating system. It doesn't matter to me to have a gun that comes apart in 3 pieces.

Ask me again in 3 years and the answer might change.

[Veduci]

I have a Cordoba. I tired the Vinci and it just does not feel as good as the Cordoba. I was not able to shoot the Vinci, just point and swing. Unless you need the 3.5" chamber, take a look at the Cordoba.

[Hoosier Hillbilly]

I'm new to duck hunting and such...

so forgive the really noobish question...

I think I really like the walnut satin finish better than the camo or black composite...

wood is still fine for duck hunting right? are there any cons to wood (other than it scratches?)...

benelli's SBE2 is made in Italy right?

thanks!

Jack

Yes, wood and bluing are fine. But IMHO the comfortech stuff is a help, at least when shooting heavy loads at ducks and geese. Depends a bit on how much duck/goose hunting you intend to do.

[VINCIshooter]

I currently own a SBE II and happy with it. My friend wants to buy a new Benelli, but is confused on which one is the best between the SBE II or VINCI. We haven't had a chance to try the VINCI as we live in Canada and won't be available to us until Dec. 2009.

SBE II = 2.75", 3", and 3.5"
VINCI = 2.75", 3", lighter and less recoil.

Does anyone have both or has anyone been able to test both and what is your preference?

SBE II or VINCI?

Should he wait for the VINCI or buy the SBE II now?

This would be mainly for Waterfowlling.

Opinions please would be grateful.
Thanks
heres my opinion, if he has longer arms the vinci would probabley fit better sounds stupid but my friend has a sbe2 and we went sporting clay shooting a couple weeks ago and we shoot trap reguarly so I took a few shots with his and it comes up too short for me but the vinci slides into place perfect even with all my waterfowl gear on if hes got shorter arms ide go with a sbe2, now were I hunt we decoy our ducks so 3.5 isnt neccasary. yet my friend just likes the bragging rights of being twig shaped and shooting 3.5 and he hunts same conditions as me. and the vinci has actually been field tested and proven to preform better than the sbe not in ducks yet but pheasent and dove. and they shoot about the same honestly his jams alot more mine has never jamed and i shoot about 250 shells a week outa it. dont get me wrong I love both guns it just depends your condidtion, and actually speeking of canada hunting my sisters husband goes hunting in random places out in canada for geese and all the guides that are out there shoot 2 and three quarter, witch is real interesting for those geese and sopposabley they reccomend using 2 and three quarter some dont even allow 3.5 depends were your going in my opinion you can take down waterfowl like a sportsman with 2 and three quarter Im shooting three inch this year just couse I wanna try it but ill probably still buy some 2 and three quarter shells

[hognutz]

Wow! I had to come up for a breath, and I was just reading the post..

[mudhen]

I've broken two Benelli wood stocks :(

[wyobirdhunter3]

all benelli's are awesome!! its everyones opinion and some guns just work better...but hey, if you buy a benelli you cant go wrong!

p.s. opening day for ducks here tomorrow...SO EXCITED!!!!

[jonesbb630]

Quote : VINCIshooter

some dont even allow 3.5 depends were your going.

_________________________________________

Not sure where this info would come from, but I never heard of any restrictions on the shell size. In Canada, they're is two rules.

1- You have to shoot steel.

2- 2+1 in chamber.

If there is any special rule on shell size anywhere in Canada, it must be from a private hunting reserve.

[jonesbb630]

Real Canada Geese hunters in Canada shoot 10GA. single shot and not fancy 12GA. like the SBE II or Vinci's.

[VINCIshooter]

Quote : VINCIshooter

some dont even allow 3.5 depends were your going.

_________________________________________

Not sure where this info would come from, but I never heard of any restrictions on the shell size. In Canada, they're is two rules.

1- You have to shoot steel.

2- 2+1 in chamber.

If there is any special rule on shell size anywhere in Canada, it must be from a private hunting reserve.
now this is just what I think 5 or 6 clubs say ill try to get the names of the places from the guy who goes but i think its kinda the same sitiation here with waterfowlers getting tired of shooting the biggest shell they can and start shooting 20g for the challeng atleast allitle more challenge but I know its some clubs in canadas rules that you cant shoot anything over 3"

[jonesbb630]

now this is just what I think 5 or 6 clubs say ill try to get the names of the places from the guy who goes but i think its kinda the same sitiation here with waterfowlers getting tired of shooting the biggest shell they can and start shooting 20g for the challeng atleast allitle more challenge but I know its some clubs in canadas rules that you cant shoot anything over 3"

Hummm? I never heard of clubs like that. But hey, it's quite possible. A lot of Canadian hunters don't like shooting 3.5" because A) there's no need for it. B) it's expensive to buy and serves no necessary purpose. C) you may be seen as a show off as the majority of Canadian hunters don't have the $$$ to shoot fancy 3.5" gunners. D) all of the above.

But only in Canada...

[VINCIshooter]

Hummm? I never heard of clubs like that. But hey, it's quite possible. A lot of Canadian hunters don't like shooting 3.5" because A) there's no need for it. B) it's expensive to buy and serves no necessary purpose. C) you may be seen as a show off as the majority of Canadian hunters don't have the $$$ to shoot fancy 3.5" gunners. D) all of the above.

But only in Canada...
hows the descision going?

[jonesbb630]

hows the descision going?
Ohhh!!!!! That's right!!! The decision??? I got so caught up in this post that I forgot that he made his decision.

My buddy just called me tonight telling me he just ordered a new SBE II Adv Max 4 28"Barrell just like mine. I told him yesterday about my post here and that there appeared to be more leaning to the SBE II than the Vinci. He was too anxious to wait anyways and the money was burning in his hands. He also bought a Tikka T3 SS Syth. Sck. 22-250 varmit wirth a Burris 3-9x40 matte scope. Got a better deal buying two guns. We are also going Coyote hunting Oct.2. We are going Duck hunting Oct.1 opening day. And Duck hunting again on the 3rd and so on.. and so on... and so on...

[JackTheRipper]

mudhen, how did you break the two stocks...

the more and more i read about benelli shotguns, the more I'm positive I want the SBEII...without a doubt, I believe it's better than the vinci...

[hognutz]

Buy the SBE ll. When you get some extra ching, buy the Vinci. You will eventually want/need both. Trust me on this one. I own both, and this is the route that I would take.

[goose2]

I own both the SBE II and the Vinci. They are both remarkable guns and I like them both. When I was hearing the talk about how ugly the Vinci was I told myself I just have to have one of them. I used it for dove hunting and what I will say is an ugly gun turned quite beutifull to say the least. I shoot nothing bigger than 3" ever therfore the Vinci is it. I really enjoyed the Vinci and it caughed out everything it was fed with ease. I also shot it with great results. It is one of those guns that just braught a smile to my face. In my eyes the Vinci is the hands down choice "period":D

[VINCIshooter]

I own both the SBE II and the Vinci. They are both remarkable guns and I like them both. When I was hearing the talk about how ugly the Vinci was I told myself I just have to have one of them. I used it for dove hunting and what I will say is an ugly gun turned quite beutifull to say the least. I shoot nothing bigger than 3" ever therfore the Vinci is it. I really enjoyed the Vinci and it caughed out everything it was fed with ease. I also shot it with great results. It is one of those guns that just braught a smile to my face. In my eyes the Vinci is the hands down choice "period":D
yup both great guns but the vinci has just that extra that makes it come allitle ahead of the others, and again exactly right 3" is all thats needed

[mudhen]

mudhen, how did you break the two stocks...

By shooting the gun :)

First one blew up in my hands - early stock - 1990 or so.

They replaced it at no charge, but the second one broke too, even with the metal retaining band they stamped in.

Other than maybe a rifle or two, I'll likely never buy another wood stocked gun again...

[Drundel]

What's the lightest loads you Vinci owners can shoot? I'm getting kinda tired of my SBE2 not cycling 1 oz. loads.

[VINCIshooter]

What's the lightest loads you Vinci owners can shoot? I'm getting kinda tired of my SBE2 not cycling 1 oz. loads.
I shoot 1 and an eighth, but i used to shoot one ounce and no probs through atleast 1000

[wyobirdhunter3]

it has done everything for me...i havent had one problem in five months i have had it.

[colejacobs]

This week I shot sporting clays with my two buddies. One has the Vinci (first time out with it) and the other a Cordoba...finally a side by side test to help me make my decision. They are both awesome guns with very little recoil. The Vinci was definitely lighter but the issue came with cycling 1 oz. loads. Unfortunately the Vinci would not cycle the second shell and my buddy was quite embarrassed each time the second clay fell to the ground without a shot. We went out the next day and he brought 1 1/8 oz. and the Vinci handled them with no issues. Needless to say, I ordered the Cordoba on Friday. I loved shooting the Vinci but it made me a little nervous when it wouldn't cycle. Benelli's website does say to use nothing less than 1 1/8 in its 12 ga. shotguns, but the Cordoba had no problem. I can see myself getting a Vinci but probably want to wait until it is a little more proven.

[jonesbb630]

Any Inertia Driven actions can give you a hard time with loads less than 1 1/8oz. You need that pressure build-up from the load itself to make the cycle. It's called the law of Inertia. You were lucky to get the Cordoba to cycle less than 1 1/8oz with no issues, specially with the ported Barrel models. If you want something that will feed less than 1 1/8oz, I believe you need to with a gas system.:cool:

[Hookster]

Also, it said that it was the Vinci's first time out. It might very well handle the lighter loads better after break-in.

Hookster

[VINCIshooter]

This week I shot sporting clays with my two buddies. One has the Vinci (first time out with it) and the other a Cordoba...finally a side by side test to help me make my decision. They are both awesome guns with very little recoil. The Vinci was definitely lighter but the issue came with cycling 1 oz. loads. Unfortunately the Vinci would not cycle the second shell and my buddy was quite embarrassed each time the second clay fell to the ground without a shot. We went out the next day and he brought 1 1/8 oz. and the Vinci handled them with no issues. Needless to say, I ordered the Cordoba on Friday. I loved shooting the Vinci but it made me a little nervous when it wouldn't cycle. Benelli's website does say to use nothing less than 1 1/8 in its 12 ga. shotguns, but the Cordoba had no problem. I can see myself getting a Vinci but probably want to wait until it is a little more proven.well now that cant be right did he properly oil and clean the vinci first? and always shoot 4 or 5 boxes of 1 1/8th and then go to 1 once, if he still has the problem flood the inerita system with oil " spray about half can oil on it" and then just wipe off exes oil after but let some sink in it, that will 110% fix the problem

[jonesbb630]

well now that cant be right did he properly oil and clean the vinci first? and always shoot 4 or 5 boxes of 1 1/8th and then go to 1 once, if he still has the problem flood the inerita system with oil " spray about half can oil on it" and then just wipe off exes oil after but let some sink in it, that will 110% fix the problem

It sounds like you need to buy a case of oil, and a funnell before you breakin your new Vinci. LOL... Is this a one shot deal with the oil flooding? I would hope so. Are you sure you don't use a special kind of shell? For all you Benelli shooters with Inertia systems, if you have a specific brand that works well bellow 1 1/8 oz, by all means, please share with us...:D

[agm65ccip]

For all you Benelli shooters with Inertia systems, if you have a specific brand that works well bellow 1 1/8 oz, by all means, please share with us...:D

Benelli M2, I use Federal top gun target 1oz, or estate 1oz target, no problems EVER.

[VINCIshooter]

[quote=jonesbb630;115582]It sounds like you need to buy a case of oil, and a funnell before you breakin your new Vinci. LOL... Is this a one shot deal with the oil flooding? I would hope so. Are you sure you don't use a special kind of shell? For all you Benelli shooters with Inertia systems, if you have a specific brand that works well bellow 1 1/8 oz, by all means, please share with us...:D[/quote
im serius! sounds dumb but it works its just walmart gun oil and just spray the heck outa it I did the same to my old wingmaster that wasnt pumping smooth enough now its smooth or smoother than a super nova, just one of my dads old tricks it works I did the same to my buddies sbe 2 we just sprayed the heck outa the action and now it cycles one ounce fine he hasnt had a prob in like a month, by the way he thought it was stupid too now he dont:cool:

[colejacobs]

Also, it said that it was the Vinci's first time out. It might very well handle the lighter loads better after break-in.

Hookster

Totally agree with this statement. It was the Vinci's first time out but the Cordoba had been broken in.

[Trapshooter1]

Benelli M2, I use Federal top gun target 1oz, or estate 1oz target, no problems EVER.
+1 My M2 has fed everything i put through it but i haven't put less than 1 oz loads, but i have put a lot of loads through it. Another way to break it in, is to actually wipe all the oil off of the bolt and cycle it by hand MANY times and you should see paint worn of in the areas that rub, and then oil it like Vinci shooter said it should cycle great. The vinci I shot cycled 100 cheapy 1 oz loads without a problem.

[jonesbb630]

[quote=jonesbb630;115582]It sounds like you need to buy a case of oil, and a funnell before you breakin your new Vinci. LOL... Is this a one shot deal with the oil flooding? I would hope so. Are you sure you don't use a special kind of shell? For all you Benelli shooters with Inertia systems, if you have a specific brand that works well bellow 1 1/8 oz, by all means, please share with us...:D[/quote
im serius! sounds dumb but it works its just walmart gun oil and just spray the heck outa it I did the same to my old wingmaster that wasnt pumping smooth enough now its smooth or smoother than a super nova, just one of my dads old tricks it works I did the same to my buddies sbe 2 we just sprayed the heck outa the action and now it cycles one ounce fine he hasnt had a prob in like a month, by the way he thought it was stupid too now he dont:cool:


That's interesting. These forums are a great source of info. Although, I'm not the type to flood any gun with oil, I shall consider this option if my SBE2 doesn't feed -1 1/8oz. I never even tried bellow that yet as I didn't want to be stuck with a full box of sells that won't work in my SBE. I will simply get the oil out, and feed my Benelli.

I guess Benelli knew that it may not always feed and took the oportunity away from us to blame the gun by clearly indicating not to use -1 1/8oz. A bunch of us would have send our Benellis' back crying defect.

[hognutz]

Your SBE ll will shoot 1 1/8 oz. shells until the cows come home, without a case of oil. Keep the rails lubed and the thing will not let you down. After you shoot a thousand or so, try the 1 oz. loads. I doubt that you will need to give the rest of the box away.

[VINCIshooter]

always, under fire again. it works period with wood guns just simply take the stock and forend offand start spraying, dont knock it till you try it wiping it works too but with the inline siystem you cant wipe the inside of the little metal tubes that are inside the spring, trapshooters idea may work for some guns though he sure likes trying to make me look stupid, myself have no hard feelings for trapshooter just agressive conversation:D

[jonesbb630]

Just tried #4 Steel 2 3/4" 1 1/16oz tonight. Works like a charm without lube.:D

[Trapshooter1]

always, under fire again. it works period with wood guns just simply take the stock and forend offand start spraying, dont knock it till you try it wiping it works too but with the inline siystem you cant wipe the inside of the little metal tubes that are inside the spring, trapshooters idea may work for some guns though he sure likes trying to make me look stupid, myself have no hard feelings for trapshooter just agressive conversation:D
I in know way made or try to make you sound stupid on this thread, I actually mentioned using your technique as a good addition to breaking it in. Read my posts on this thread again.