reloading help

[khewell]

hi to all
i'm new to cowboy action shooting and it's been 15+ years since i've reloaded. i use to reload for 44 mag, 357 mag and 38 spl. all the guns i had, had adjustable sites. my six guns i have now are the uberti cattleman 5.5" barrel fixed sites in stainless. impressed with the guns so far. withy factorymagtech they shoot low with pmc they are almost dead on both having 250g rnfp. i like reloading but my loads all shoot low even with max loads. i'm using a 200g rnfp. i thought a lighter bullet would hit higher. i recently read an artical that claims a heaver bullet hits higher. so i guess my question is, is this a true statment? if i move to a 230g or 250g bullet will my impact point raise?
sorry to be long winded on my first post

[Big Rock]

Do you remember where you read that article?

I shoot 250g RNFP in both my 5.5" Cattleman and '66 Carbine. I was reloading with 4.5g of Hogdon Clays and they shoot to point of aim on SASS/CAS targets. I find myself not even using sights, just pointing.

[tucker301]

Cowboy is not my forte, but I do know how to find stuff on the net.

Try These Links:
http://www.christianaction.org.za/firearmnews/2004-02_APhilosophyofHeavyBullet.htm

http://www.curtrich.com/reloading.html

Both make mention of lighter bullets shooting lower than heavier ones, within certain ranges at least.

[khewell]

http://www.curtrich.com/reloading.html
this would be the artical. after some thought and checking my reloading manual i think it may be because the heaver bullet travels slower allowing more time for the recoil to effect the shot. ie 200g rnfp at 927 fps vs 250g at 750 fps.
then again i may just be all wet.

[englishbob]

Originally posted by khewell:
http://www.curtrich.com/reloading.html
this would be the artical. after some thought and checking my reloading manual i think it may be because the heaver bullet travels slower allowing more time for the recoil to effect the shot. ie 200g rnfp at 927 fps vs 250g at 750 fps.
then again i may just be all wet. Simply put....physics! Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. IIRC!

Firing heavier bullets generates more recoil forces against your hand. The mechanics of your hands, wrists, forearms, elbows and shoulders, react to absorb these. Greater force equals more shock absorbtion from the joints/muscles and the muzzle is raised higher than with light bullets before the bullet leaves the barrel, resulting in a higher piont of impact!

[tucker301]

I was thinking perhaps it was due to increased pressures, as mentioned in the other article.

"Slower-burning powders usually develop more velocity at a given pressure than fast burning powders. For example, if one should load a 30,000 CUP load of Bullseye powder with a 260 gr. bullet in the 45 Colt, the velocity is a little over 1100 fps. However, go to a slower powder such as H-110 and again develop a 30,000 CUP load with the same bullet and the velocity in the same gun will be over 1460 fps. You could say that the pressure lasts longer with the slower powder, pushing farther up the barrel. Now when you start using heavier bullets, the powders seem to work more efficiently. Using the same bullet as before, 23 grains of H-110 will shove the 260 gr. bullet to 1224 fps. The same powder charge using a 320 gr. LBT bullet will push it to 1280 fps. Same powder charge, but 60 fps increase. Of course, the pressure is higher with the heavy bullet. Velocity and pressure are tied to each other. But the powder works more efficiently with the heavy bullet. I use 2400 powder a lot in my sixguns. One complaint about 2400 is unburned powder left in the cylinder and barrel with some loads. When using heavy bullets I have not had that problem with 2400. It seems the heavier bullet makes the powder burn cleaner. "

[smokin_gun]

Originally posted by englishbob:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by khewell:
http://www.curtrich.com/reloading.html
this would be the artical. after some thought and checking my reloading manual i think it may be because the heaver bullet travels slower allowing more time for the recoil to effect the shot. ie 200g rnfp at 927 fps vs 250g at 750 fps.
then again i may just be all wet. Simply put....physics! Every action has an opposite and equal reaction. IIRC!


Bob I've been tryin ta tell people that for years. Lighter loads are usually more accurate. I'll try to say it as you did next time LoL.
Also at our forum at the top click gunsmiths trick I think it is. On BP powders and loads. Some people think the becaFFFFg is faster burning it'll hit harder than FFFg ... wrong its conciderably less FtLbs of Energy wise. Catch ya i'm off to the hay.

Firing heavier bullets generates more recoil forces against your hand. The mechanics of your hands, wrists, forearms, elbows and shoulders, react to absorb these. Greater force equals more shock absorbtion from the joints/muscles and the muzzle is raised higher than with light bullets before the bullet leaves the barrel, resulting in a higher piont of impact! </font>[/QUOTE]

[khewell]

250g bullets finnaly came in. loaded some up with unique results as follows
6.0g powder hit about 1/2" high
6.5g powder dead on
7.0g powder 1/4-1/2" low
all loads using 250g rnfp.
so what ever the reason the heavier bullet hits higher than a 200g bullet. i'm just happy the gun will hit dead on without any adjustment to the front site.

[Gatofeo]

Yep, the faster a handgun bullet's velocity, the lower it strikes on target.
The opposite is true: heavier bullets hit higher.
But that's only true for handguns.
In rifles, a lighter bullet strikes higher. Heavier bullets strike lower --- exactly the opposite of a handgun.
Here's another opposite that often confuses people:
Move the rear sight on a handgun in the direction you want the bullet to strike. For example, if the bullet is striking high to the right, you'd move the rear (adjustable) sight down and to the left.
HOWEVER ...
Some older pistols have front adjustable sights, like my old Colt Officer's Model Target .38 revolver.
In this case, front sights are moved in the OPPOSITE direction of where you want the bullet to strike.
If the bullet hits low and left, move the FRONT sight down and left.
Remember: Rear sight, move it in the direction you want the bullet to strike. Front sight: move it in the opposite direction desired.
A common mistake is when newbies try to "adjust" the fixed sights on their Colt cap and ball revolvers, which have fixed sights.
Cap and ball Colt revolvers always strike high on the target. To lower the group, metal must be added to the front sight, or a higher front sight installed.
Alas, some newbies mistakenly believe that if they file down the front sight, that will bring the groups lower.
Wrong! They find that their groups are even higher!
Every once in a while, in the many message boards I visit, some newbie reports he was told to file down the front sight to bring the groups lower, or a newbie advises a fellow newbie to do it.
This usually gets a quick response, but it sometimes takes some doing to get a newbie to understand the physics of handgun sights and bullet impact.
EnglishBob is absolutely correct. His is a good explanation. I applaud him for bringing up the human mechanics involved, because too often people forget that their arm is an extension of the handgun and has a role as well.
Handguns are very user-specific. You say you have a load that hits dead-on for you. Try an experiment and have a few friends fire the same load.
My bet is that between each shooter, the load won't shoot exactly to the same place. Subtle differences in how you grip the handgun, and how you align its sights, will show up downrange.
The same goes for rifles. It's fine to get your hunting rifle on-target with a Lead Sled or benchrest shooting, but the last groups should be fired from prone or kneeling, to replicate hunting conditions.

Back in 1973 I bought a Ruger Old Model .45 Colt. I've been firing that handgun for over 30 years. My favorite load back then, and today, remains the Lyman 454424 Keith semiwadcutter, sized to .452 inch, over 7.5 grains of Unique.
It's a good all-purpose load.
HOWEVER ...
Beware of small amounts of Unique in large cases in very cold weather. It tends to burn erratically.
I found this out years ago, while target-shooting at 0 degrees Fahrenheit (-18 C).
The revolver and ammo had been stored overnight in the trunk of my 1973 Duster, so both were equally cold.
I tried to hit a can on a stump and bullets hit vertically up and down that stump, from a few inches below a can to 18 inches below it!
The report ranged from a BOOM to a Keplunk. I thought I had bad primers until an old, wise reloader on the block clued me in.
When it gets down to 20 F (-7 C) or colder, and if your ammo and gun are equally cold, Unique in large-volume cases such as the .45 Colt, .44-40 and even .45-70 can give you problems.
Even Magnum primers didn't seem to help much.
I later "solved" the problem by carrying the Ruger in a shoulder holster, under my coat, where it stayed warm. Never had a problem after that.
I don't know if any other powders have this problem. I'm no longer so stoopid as to plink or target shoot in subfreezing weather.
I may not be smarter, but I'm warmer!