colt draggon suitable for serious self defence?

[agent00]

hi, I have got a uberti colt dragoon und it is a really great gun ;) . I have used for fun shooting and it never dispointed me. but know I want to know if the 44 Bp ammo used in this gun is suitable for serious self defence?

[dougs_45]

Hi
Any gun that throws lead can be used for self defence, but the one thing you need to remember is that the reliability of the weapon being used in that manner, if this draggon is a cap and ball one I would have to ask why are you going to use it for self defence when a cartridge firing handgun is going to be far more reliable and also how long is it going to set loaded because black powder will damage the cylinder over time if not cleaned on a regular bases.
Good Luck

[agent00]

yes, I know, but I am more a fun schooter and I like shooting my dragoon. I don't think it would be necessary to buy a catridge revolver for sd, I only wanted to know if I could use it an any case of emergency. And I know that a modern catridge rovolver would be much better for sd but I think in an case of ermgency the dragoon would get the job done

[Greg Nelson]

I have a Uberti Remington .44, and have experimented with leaving a spare cylinder loaded for 6 months. It fired without a hitch.

I've been firing C&B revolvers for 30+ years now, and find them more reliable than many automatic pistols. The secret is to clear oil from chambers and nipples prior to loading. I do this by dipping the cylinder in boiling water for about two minutes, and then drying the chambers and blowing the nipples clear, and then allowing the cylinder to air cool prior to loading.

Find a brand of caps which fit very tightly on the nipples, and seat them snugly with a wooden dowel(AFTER loading the chambers!). Make sure to load a ball or conical large enough to shear off a thin ring of lead, and you will have 6 shots that are practically waterproof and reliable.

I use a 200 grain conical bullet cast from a Lee 450-200-1R mould, and lube it with beeswax; with 30 grains of GOEX FFFg, it hits as hard as a .45 ACP. The Uberti .44 is also MUCH more accurate than my Colt Commander 1911A1.

If you're comfortable with your loading technique, the Dragoon will work for self-defense, as it has since 1848.

[laramie]

My granddad told me that they would put beeswax over the cap on the nipple to make sure no condensation or moisture could enter the nipple. He also told me that he had a pistol that fired over a year after being loaded? There are cases where blackpowder firearms found after years and years that were still loaded fired. With proper loading and storege, yes it will fire. As for knock down power, with 35 grains of ffg over a round ball, it will drop a man as quick as any new gun on the market.

[jtg452]

A cap and ball pistol can do the job- without a doubt- but that doesn't mean it's the best tool for the job.

Using the same kind of thought process, you don't need all those wrenches or that socket set in your tool box if you own a pair of Vise Grips. The vise grips will loosen a bolt just like the proper size wrench will, but that doesn't mean I'm throwing out my Craftsman wrench sets.

Cap and ball guns in this day and age are little more than very dangerous toys. In a word, they are obsolete and have been for over a century. If they weren't, they would still be in common use. Yes, they were relied upon for self defense in 1848 but in 1848 they were state of the art! If you were to hook up with Mr. Peabody and use his Way Back machine to go to 1848 and offer one of our forefathers the option of using a modern pistol instead of his Patterson or Dragoon, I bet he'd go for the 20th Century gun as long as he could feed it.

Folks killed each other for thousands of years with nothing more than a sharp rock or pointy stick but I don't see many people wanting to learn flint knapping so they can make a self defense knife.

There are a plethora of more advanced, and more appropriate, firearm designs available. I own a bunch of cap and ball pistols but I would NEVER want to rely on one as my primary self defense gun unless the choice came down to either using it or finding a pointy stick or a half a brick.

As a matter of fact, I don't even carry them in the woods (not even my Whitneyville Dragoon or Walker). I know that a .454 round ball over 40 or more grains of FFFg (yes, I know that's a heavier charge than the factory suggests but it makes a very satsifying impact) will kill most things I'm likely to run into deader than disco and I know I can hit close enough to where I'm aiming with it to make the point of impact a non-issue but I'd rather have a more modern gun to bet my life or health on.

Remember that when you are thinking about choosing a gun for self defense, that's what your deciding.

What gun are you willing to rely upon when it's YOUR life and the lives of those with you on the line?

You're gonna need to think with your head-not your heart- on this one. That big horse pistol is fun to shoot but if you're in a situation that you're seriously considering shooting somebody, the fun's over. If it comes to that, do you really want to have that Dragoon of yours in your hand?

[Novaking]

Some cap and balls won't hold a group at 7 yards. Blackpowder. At least if you miss, you can disappear in the night like ninja.:p

[timb99]

Close your eyes when you pull the trigger if you shoot it in the dark.

If your eyes are open, you won't be able to see for the next 5 minutes.

[Fingers McGee]

black powder will damage the cylinder over time if not cleaned on a regular bases.
Good Luck

That's just plain wrong Dougs_45

[LeMat1856]

greetings,

having lived in a city that was plagued with riots following the rodney king court decision, i vowed to never let myself be left undefended again. seems the cops are always there when you don't need 'em and never there when you do.

when i saw the LeMat black powder revolver of 1856, i knew i had found exactly what i needed - large, high firepowder, and time tested during real (civil) war conditions. i don't care how macho you are, you will definitely think twice before coming at a person waiving an uberti dragoon or 10 round lemat. and that's all i need for self defense. intimidation is half the battle in those conditions.

to prove my point i took my piece to a local range and did accuracy tests and found i could easily put all 9 .454 caliber lead balls in the 6" target at 25 yards and still have either a .625 caliber round ball or 3/4 ounce of #2 buckshot from the smoothbore. no doubt the noise, smoke, and effective firepowder would do the job as well today as it did during the civil war of 1865.

the same goes for a dragoon, walker, and almost any .44 sized black powder load. true, the major disadvantage is in the time needed to reload, but that's why i have two hands - one for each weapon. and given the price of ammunition today, i can practice time and time again for pennies which in the long run might actually give me the advantage...

if the final measure is stopping power you might be surprised. chronograph results show a 140 grain ball (.454") can generate between 1001 to 1201 fps with 483 foot pounds of muzzle energy - a close equivalent to the modern .45 acp factory loads.

dragoons using a 230 grain ball load gave the same approximate energy as the standard factory .44 special loading with velocity a few feet per second higher.

though somewhat at the lower end of the fps-velocity spectrum, the LeMat still packs quite a punch with a .451" ball measuring in the 800 to 900 range. its advantage, however, is in close up and personal encounters where it can deliver 3/4 ounce of #2 shot "within the confines of a man-sized silhouette at 20 feet or #8 birdshot penetrating to a depth of 3/8" in tight, game-effective patterns to 40 feet.

(see Percusion Pistols and Revolvers by Bates and Cumpston, 2005)

works for me....

~d~

[Horten]

Close your eyes when you pull the trigger if you shoot it in the dark.

If your eyes are open, you won't be able to see for the next 5 minutes.

I second that. BP makes quite a white flash.

[Gatofeo]

As a last-ditch, emergency defense gun you could do worse than a cap and ball revolver.
Cap and ball revolvers have killed millions throughout the world.
The .36 caliber kills all out of proportion to its ballistics; years of use in combat prove this beyond question. The .44 is slightly better. Both will put a man down, or not. Each person is an individual so it's impossible to make blanket pronouncements like that.
I know of one case where a man was hit at close range with two rounds of 00 Buckshot from a 12 gauge, and kept running for a short distance. Anyone who can absorb 18, .32-caliber balls at 1,200 feet per second won't be stopped by any handgun bullet.
But his was an unusual case. I only mention it to point out that nothing is certain as a man-stopper unless you're talking grenades or small artillery.
Myself, and most others, we'd prefer a more modern gun. But if a .44-caliber cap and ball gun is all you have, it's better than a baseball bat or sword.
The 1851 Colt Navy was a favorite of Confederate cavalrymen. It fired an 80-grain lead ball at maximum velocity of about 1,000, or a conical bullet of 139 to 155 grs. at anywhere from 500 to 800 fps.
During the Civil War, there was no "standard load" for their revolvers adopted by either side. Bullet size, weight and powder charge in their paper cartridges varied widely.
The February 1975 issue of the American Rifleman has an interesting article, in which the author dissected various paper cartridges that dated to the 1850s and 1860s, and perhaps the early 1870s before they were discontinued. The disparity of bullet weights and powder charges is amazing; it varied by contractor.
Your .44 cap and ball is far from ideal as a defense gun, but since you live in Austria it's probably all you can own without being eyeballed by the police.
Load that revolver carefully, to ensure the charges stay free of dampness. May you never have to use it for self defense. Shooting another human being, no matter how justified, is a terrible thing.

[MarcB]

Hello All!



Your .44 cap and ball is far from ideal as a defense gun, but since you live in Austria it's probably all you can own without being eyeballed by the police.

Actually, when you are 21 of age and have your residence in Austria, you can apply for a licence for handguns and selfloading rifles/shotguns (= kat. B weapons).
When you declare "self defense at home" as reason on the form, the licence MUST be given to you by law in a period of less then 6 months.

"Normal" rifles and shotguns (= category B and D weapons, the non-self loading types) can be freely bought by anone of the age of 18, no licence whatsoever is required.

As a side note, we have numerous gun clubs, competitions, etc. over here, Austria has (still) very liberal gun laws, compared to the rest of Europe and even compared to a lot US states.




May you never have to use it for self defense. Shooting another human being, no matter how justified, is a terrible thing.

So true.


All the best,

Marc

[Gatofeo]

Wow. I didn't know that about Austria.
I've been to Belgium and France, where all firearms are heavily regulated. Good to hear that Austria is still relatively sane.